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Post by Upstart on Feb 19, 2005 17:34:47 GMT
I'm wondering what you're thinking about the anti-fascist movement in your country. I personal completly support the anti-fascist struggle, but see a lot of problems with how the anti-fascist movement functions here in The Netherlands.
I think the anti-fascist movement here is too much living in it's own reality. They aren't possible to attract new people for their actions. It mainly consist of white middle-class kids who only take actions when the AFA or SWP (IS called here) ask them too come.
Maybe in other countries it's better only know about Germany and hate t there also as I don't want to walk with the anti-germans in one demonstration as I see myself anti-fascist and nationalist together.
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Post by Bootboy Geth on Feb 21, 2005 17:34:49 GMT
theres no scene here in wales to have anything to protest agaisnt anymore. All the boneheads were kicked out in the 80s i think
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Post by Steve DIY on Mar 3, 2005 17:17:16 GMT
theres no scene here in wales to have anything to protest agaisnt anymore. All the boneheads were kicked out in the 80s i think There's no real anti fascist alternative in the UK to combat shit like the BNP etc etc. What has fucked up the BNP in many areas has been in fighting such as Luke Smith in the North East glassing people while pissed.
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RedSkinhead
New Member
29 year old antifascist skinhead...
Posts: 1
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Post by RedSkinhead on Mar 6, 2005 19:00:18 GMT
Over here...in Sweden that is, there's is a fairly big anti-fascist scene, however it has some tendencies of being extremly politicaly correct and controled by secteristic middle-class wannabe-revolutionaries who are more involved in sitting in gloomy basements and making up plans for the coming revolution and passing judgements upon everyone who isn't into their specific kind of antifascist analysis rather than fighting the scum on the streets.
The anti-fascist skinheadscene is also growing but are still a rather small part of the bigger antifascist movement, mostly represented by the swedish section of AFA, who I believe are more ideologicaly dogmatic (towards anarchism/syndicalism) than AFA in the UK for instance. SHARP:s are looked upon with skepcism from both the left-wing antifascists and the "non-political" skins.
With regards and in solidarity /RedSkinhead, Sweden
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Post by CHIP on Mar 6, 2005 23:14:42 GMT
Your description of Swedish lefties sounds eerily familiar...
Anti-fascism in England has been ruthlessly effective in the past, but now that the BNP have changed tactics and are playing at being 'legitimate' politicians (yeah right), there's no effective opposition to them on that front, apart from some isolated examples like the IWCA.
Part of the problem in the city I come from is that the BNP are getting votes in some areas because they're the only 'politicians' who'll go into some white working-class estates and actually talk to people. Other parties, especially lefties, seem to be terrified of of going into these areas.
Saying that, I can't see the BNP getting that much bigger than they are now. They're basically hopeless fuckwits and despite their recent growth, I doubt they can organise themselves efficiently enough to grow much more. Well I hope not.
Anyway, there are still people in the UK carrying on the AFA tradition of street-level anti-fascism, but in the current political climate, it'll take more than that to get rid of the bastards completely.
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Post by Upstart on Mar 6, 2005 23:41:06 GMT
I think this is the problem with the leftwing movemnet orldwide. I won't vote at all as I don't like the hippieattiude of the leftwingparties, even though we have more choise then in the UK. All leftwingparties don't realise what's happening in the working class neighbourhoods. Lots of old traditional leftwing voters now search their hope in rightwing populist groups.
I really hope that there will be a new real leftwing movement which is based in the working class itself and won't be controlled by middle-class PC-fascists. Last time I went to a antifa-action some self-proclaimed leader told me I wasn't allowed to say my opinion in a talk with someone else because it was rightwing in his narrow mind (it was about the death penalty and that I said that the leftwing/antifa movement is 100% white).
Anyway I hope one day there will be a new working-class movement which defends only the intrests of the working class and which says no to midddle-class hippie salon-socialists.
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Post by Torque on Mar 8, 2005 4:50:56 GMT
While I agree with much of Chip's analysis of the situation in the UK. I have to take issue with his assertion that the BNP won't get much bigger because they are basically fuckwits. Well for starters, relying on someone to continue being stupid isn't much of a strategy is it? Secondly, if the BNP are fuckwits, well then, what does that make us? They've come fom nowhere to take 17 (maybe 18 or 19, I've lost count) council seats, come within a whisker of getting an MEP elected, and will in the near future undoubtedly take many more council seats. What have we ever done that compares to that? Chip is right when he says that lefties are scared of the white working class, but in my experience the same goes for most anarchists in the UK as well, its a problem that goes deeper than a few middle-class squeamish lefties, its a decades old historic failure of progressive politics full-stop. I agree with the IWCA wqhen they say that everything needs to be up for discussion now and completely re-evaluated.
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Post by CHIP on Mar 8, 2005 23:53:34 GMT
Yeah Torque... the key words were "Well I hope not"
I think there is still a real danger of the BNP becoming something big, but I can't see them sustaining the rate of growth they've had in the last two or three years, which if we're honest, has taken most people by surprise. Sadly I imagine they'll face more set-backs due to internal rifts than through the actions of their enemies as we stand at present.
What you say about anarchists is 100% true as well... any relevance to the wider working class is ruined by the hippy shite that masqueardes as anarchism these days - its a far cry from the hundreds of thousands who fought and died against fascists and for anarchist ideals in 1930s Spain (oops, I sound like a dull politico again...)
Yeah the IWCA really seems like a breath of fresh air - the very idea of representing normal people seems radical compared to most lefty sects. And I do think that if anything is going to change, it'll require a back-to-the-drawing-board approach rather than parroting the gospel according to some beardy bloke who's been dead a hundred years. After all, the bad guys have changed and moved with the times, but it seems the good guys are held back by a proliferation of social workers, students and stoned hippies.
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Post by Torque on Mar 10, 2005 20:38:27 GMT
My only problem with the IWCA is the fact that they are very hostile towards anyone who still thinks the fash should be phsically challenged occasionally. I've heard militant anti-fascists described as "class traitors," "childish", "adventurists" etc etc. Ironic really when you consider the origins of that group.
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Post by CHIP on Mar 10, 2005 22:16:01 GMT
Really? I didn't know that.
I'm impressed with a lot of what they do, but I didn't know they were opposed to physical confrontation. Bloody ironic...
Of course the fight against fascism takes more than street-fighting, but I still think its a crucial part of the struggle... I mean there's still plenty of old-school boneheads (look at the White Nationalist Party for example) who's tactics HAVEN'T changed, so the traditional response seems like the best option in those cases...
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Post by spbsharp on Mar 27, 2005 7:48:30 GMT
well, here in russia antifa-movement is not so good as we want it. but it exist, so we all are very heppy. and about antifa-skinhead movement i can't say anything. there are 15-20 sharp-rash-trad-skins (so i am sharp) in my city Saint-Petersburg. but nazi-scums are much more, and we very glad that they all are cowards-rats ;D sorry for my very-very bad english.
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Post by Bootboy Geth on Mar 27, 2005 14:00:08 GMT
well, here in russia antifa-movement is not so good as we want it. but it exist, so we all are very heppy. and about antifa-skinhead movement i can't say anything. there are 15-20 sharp-rash-trad-skins (so i am sharp) in my city Saint-Petersburg. but nazi-scums are much more, and we very glad that they all are cowards-rats ;D sorry for my very-very bad english. good for you mate, stand up to the scum
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Post by Upstart on Mar 27, 2005 18:14:29 GMT
good for you mate, stand up to the scum Completly agree. Maybe I will visit you one day with my girlfriend as she has also the russian identity.
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Post by drunkpunklove on Mar 27, 2005 22:07:51 GMT
Here in Toronto, there it isn't so much 1 anti-facist group of people (although we do have our SHARP skins and whatnot) but more of everyone in the punk scence being against facism. Lately though nazis have been coming to the shows and threatning anti-facists and blacks. For instance my buddy who's half-black and a skin got a knife pulled on him when he was walking to a show after having a smoke. They are mostly just "insta-skins" from the suburbs that were goths abouta month ago. It's not so bad becasue theyre mostly just talk on the ontario punkrock forum which is used for posting shows and such. www.ontariopunkrock.ca
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Post by anarcho on Mar 29, 2005 21:58:57 GMT
My only problem with the IWCA is the fact that they are very hostile towards anyone who still thinks the fash should be phsically challenged occasionally. I've heard militant anti-fascists described as "class traitors," "childish", "adventurists" etc etc. Ironic really when you consider the origins of that group. really??? that is funny as IWCA started up as a red action front along with some anarchists from AFA. my big problem with the IWCA is all this voting stuff.
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